Mavens of Misdeeds
Mavens of Misdeeds
Sarah Ware Murder Part 2 and The Dudley Curse
In this episode we are back with Part 2 of the historical true crime story about Sarah Ware. A coroner's inquest has been held and a suspect arrested, but will justice be done? Many theories are starting to emerge and secrets are being revealed! Source material for this episode-Emeric Spooner's book "Sarah Ware Revisited".
Yasmine takes us to Dudleytown, Connecticut to a village that has become a ghost town. The town's namesake, the Dudley family have suffered the effects of a curse placed on them since the time of King Henry VIII! Legend has it that despite the family curse there is something evil that lurks in the woods of Dudleytown, so much so that it is now gated to keep prying eyes out, or maybe to keep something else in...
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Hello Mavens. Welcome to Mavens of Misdeeds, the podcast about folklore, the paranormal and historical true crime. I'm Jen and joined by my equally spooky cohost Yasmine, and I just want to practice for our transcription, the software that I use. It, it corrects that when I say Yasmine like the most insane thing throughout the transcript, and I'm like, I don't understand this. I feel like, yes, then. I don't know what else I can, but then it'll pick up like the weirdest words Uhhuh that, perfect solution will say and it'll like perfectly, and I'm like really? Of all the ones I was looking for that one to be wrong. But anyway, sorry everyone, that was just a little test for me to see If, these script can actually hear me say ya men I'm going to be going first tonight with the part two of the Sarah, where historical true crime. That is now officially a saga I've had to do. This will, this will not be the last part I had hoped and I was gonna try, but it won't be the last part. But I will wrap this up in a part three for next week. But once we get into to this, you will see why the more I read, the more ridiculous this case becomes. And now it is very easy to see why after a hundred. 15 plus years. It is still technically un I can't wait. Hang on. What your mama gave you I think is a it's our Southern statement. Anyway I've got this section as we are going into the coroners inquest now. I guess probably should have done maybe a somewhat quick recap. And for sure, if you're just now discovering us, go back one episode. Cuz you will be completely lost in this whole thing. Should have said that too at the beginning. To very briefly recap from last week we've got Sarah, Ware who was a an upstanding woman in the community. She was Canadian. She came to find her American dream in Bucksport, Maine is where she landed. She married a prominent citizen of the town and had three children with him. And she was at some point became unhappy in the marriage. She divorced her husband then she took on some odd. Jobs as a housekeeper around town for a lot of different families and was kind of just making her own way through life. And then she was going about her business, her regular regular. Habits, routines of visiting friends and things like that. Running errands one day and she disappeared. Then about two weeks after that, they do discover her body and that's pretty much what gets us to to this point. Just for those of you that listened last week, that's just a little recap. We left off, they discover the body on October 2nd, and they have the the coroner's inquest the very next day on October 3rd. Yeah. How is, how's that for instant gratification? They have some local doctors, these are gonna be three doctors that were local to Bucksport. The first one is a Dr. George Emerson, and he goes into the most detail describing the state that the body was in when they, they found it. And I do wanna note here, cause this will be important for, for this, and then as we go on through part two and then into part three, that a group of men were attempting to place Sarah's body into a casket on obviously the back of a wagon from, to get it from the scene to Okay. The, the mortuary I presume. And my favorite guy in the whole wide world. William. Treworgy which we all know from last week. He is William. Now I have not found another William yet, he is now William, I don't have to say that last name cuz I feel about it. Anyway, he stumbles into the body somehow. Not sure if he just trips or whatever, but somehow he knocks against the body as they're trying to load it. And her flipping head falls off. Yes.
Yasmine:Wait. How long
Jen:had she been missing at this point? That's, yeah. She was pretty well missing just like two weeks. So, Cause they remember they kinda sounded the alarm after two weeks and then they As soon as the sheriff, Yeah, as soon as the sheriff's, like, what, he goes, gets these search parties. Okay. And then like within two days they find her they start on that Saturday, they don't find her. Okay. Then they resume on Sunday and they find her. And then now we're yeah, we're having this inquest. Like I said, that's gonna be very important to note for later on. The, he describes the skull as it's pretty much devoid of any flesh at this point because she has been. In the elements, all those things her lower jaw is broken and a big part of that is missing and not recovered some of the upper jaw's gone. And somehow this gentleman is obsessed that an animal with quote sharp teeth could have caused all of this damage and he is leaning towards a cause of death as exhaustion yeah. And pretty much like a, I mean, it, it was silliness. Yeah, exactly. And Horace Snow, Dr. Horace snow. He definitely believes that it is foul play. He says maybe she could have fallen and then, her head strikes against rock or something like that. But he's really leaning towards foul play. I think he feels bad maybe for Dr. Emerson. The first guy that thinks that he's obsessed with his animal. Oh, and to note that George Emerson, he is like the most experienced physician. Like he's the oldest physician and he's like clearly the most clueless. Anyway, then we've got Dr. George to. and he notes that the brain is still in the skull. He describes that the entire left side of her face is quote, jammed in obviously by like an external force. He does not believe the animal theory or the fall theory. He says, unless she could have fallen, unless if she was tied up or unconscious and kind of, thrown maybe down that kind of thing. But he's pretty much like y'all are silliness. Like it, it was foul play basically. And then at the inquest, that concludes the, the doctors anyway, their portion you've, Mrs. Almira Miles, if we remember, that's the lady that she was living with and had been living with for some time at this point. She says that Sarah normally was always home by 9:00 PM and at 10 o'clock she starts looking for her. In what way? She looked for her? I don't know. She didn't say in this statement and I haven't seen thus for Yeah. What that would be. I'm not sure if she just went downstairs or something because we know that she didn't really do a whole lot for quite a while to really look for her. But she says this in her coroner statement and she knew that Mr. Williams, this is the gentleman that we talked about, one of them that she had mentioned had owed her. A fairly substantial amount of money for past housekeeping, child rearing, services. She, she knew that Mr. Williams had paid off all but$13 of money owed to Sarah. It's interesting that she's even making mention of this cuz it kind of comes out of a little bit outta nowhere. And she alsays that she had been under the impression that Sarah was at John Bulduc's and just, cooking for him. That was the gentleman that she had said that she was gonna go visit and then she'd be straight back home. And she just assumes that she's decided to like stay over or something. I'm not sure. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for the time, that wouldn't have been. two unmarried, a man and a woman spending, like, she's not just gonna go shack up with him. That's not gonna be socially right. Okay. in 1898. I'm not, And it just, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense why she would just think that. Just kind of, file that away, especially for long. I mean, now staying the night at someone's house that was not weird because, you're on foot a lot, If it got late and you got tired, then that could be a thing. Still be a little bit of a thing. Since he was a widower, Right? And she's, a single woman at this point, it, that would've still been a bit weird. But anyway, it's what she says that she starts to assume. Next we have Angeline Fogg. And this was the woman that owned a store where she stopped and bought her cigar and was the last person other than the murderer to. Well, nope, that's not true. Cause a few townspeople also saw her, but she was the last one to really interact with Sarah and speak to her other than presumably the murderer. She testifies that she saw her around 9:00 PM Sarah bought the cigar and specifically said she was in a hurry to get back to Mrs. Mile. Now that's gonna lead everybody to believe that she is obviously going to be heading straight home from stopping at the store. I think I have this somewhere else for some reason, but I do remember it was said that basically she would've been like a 10 minute walk from the store back to her home with Mrs. Miles yeah. Not a long distance for something to, happen. Yeah. In that shorter period of time. Now we have Charles Williams, the one that keeps being mentioned, that owed her money. He testifies and he says that he paid her$65 on April 12. And that that had him paid in full basically. Obviously this is contradicting what Mrs. Miles has just testified to that Sarah has directly, told her. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Who's, who's telling the truth. Five out of six of the jurors basically end up agreeing Wow, that this was foul play as their verdict. One person firmly believed it to be an accident. Yeah, I, I, I don't know how you would after hearing all of that, but anyway and of course, the coroner's jury is gonna be made up of prominent men of the town, just bear that in mind. Her skull is kept. At George Ware's this is now her brother-in-law. And if you remember her her ex-husband who's now passed away his father had owned the prominent funeral home in Bucksport, it was a regular funeral home, a prominent one. But anyway, her brother-in-law, I assume now he has taken over this, this family business and. He keeps the, her skull for safe keeping, I suppose at the the funeral home in a locked box. Unfortunately, it does become a bit of a sideshow attraction. he's gonna show it to anybody that wants to come in and just, take a peek at it. unfortunately nothing new for the, the times there. Sarah's, the rest of Sarah's body ends up being buried in a pauper's grave at Silver Lake Cemetery. And that's, and that in and of itself is a bizarre, This is not super here nor there. I didn't. Put it in my notes. I was gonna skip over it, but I don't know if it's gonna become relevant towards the end or not, because many things that I thought I could skip over. As I've read further, I was like, Oh no. this is all coming full circle now. But it just to, to mention, Sarah was not unloved or estranged from her children or anything like that. Yeah, sure. They had moved out of Bucksport and had their own, lives married and whatever. But it was, Sarah's living daughter, she basically comes back and realizes this has happened. Well, she had paid for her for, they had paid for a few, like for a spot, so, Evidently, the town's gonna say it was a mix up. She was inadvertently and I, I just, knowing customs and things of that time, I would find that very hard to believe they would accidentally be put in the poppers part of the cemetery. It doesn't make any sense. and as we'll get through this a little more, more in part three, but unfortunately Sarah was disinter a couple of times, least two. Some sources say three because this story drags on this, the trials and things are gonna drag on for long, many so, but just as a, to an, an end to that, ultimately Sarah gets her. In the right place, where she should have been all along, all of that. Oh my goodness. Albeit still headless. And then cuz that's a whole other thing that gets into modern times. Now the investigation begin and it, if I you have, as you can imagine, we didn't have Scotland Yard hanging out in Bucksport, Maine No. Or pretty much anywhere else in 1898, at this point in rural America. You've got two. I'm using the word very loosely. Detectives from outside of Bucksport, but from the state of Maine, they somehow get wind of this and whatever, and they come in and basically the town agrees that they will pay them only if they get on the, on the contingency. That if you get results, like you find the killer, then you will get paid. It's almost like a bounty tournament, a detective style, I think So, they're not being paid to come and investigate. They're only gonna get paid if what they do. lands and results and they are independent of each other. And I'm not throwing names at you here because again, there's many names in this story that you would lose. You would just lose your mind. they're just detectives, it's fine. Sarah's the her trunk, and belongings in her room at Mrs. Miles. Obviously the deputy sheriff had, searches had been done prior to these two detectives coming, to see if any clues could be, gained from examining her possessions, things like that. And nothing, nothing had been found. And now you alhave to keep in mind that from from jump, there's this question that's floating around about money whether she had a large sum of money on her, whether she could have been meeting someone to collect money owed to her all this stuff. They're, they're looking to see, and and they've jumping ahead. Now one of those detectives goes back to her room, he's like, Hey, I want to do my own search. And he goes with the deputy sheriff. On October 12th. We're, we're coming up on, well, more like three and a half weeks after she's been found. And they find$45 laying out in the open, basically on top Oh, wow. Of when they open her trunk in her and everybody's like, Yeah, no, that was not there. We have searched this room at least once. Some, some accounts said twice, and no, there was no what do you think that, what, what would you make of that? I would
Yasmine:think that somebody planted it. Maybe that, Oh, wait, there was the guy that said he had paid in full. Put that in there because there was some type of ledger that he knew. I don't know. I I feel like somebody planted it, but why?
Jen:Right. And I don't know. Yes. And one of like the authors theories in, in the book is that much was starting to circulate about the money that, maybe it could have been as simple as and actually the Boston Globe actually accused in writing in one of their articles, Mrs. Miles of basically stealing it, of going into a room. And, and and the author says, Hey, who knows, after Sarah's been found to be, dead, she may have gone been like, I've, we've lived together for, gosh, it was what, like almost 10 years at that point. And, I, I think she would've. wanted me to have this. Yeah. Or, or something, who knows? Or could be as as simple as, Hey, she's dead, You shouldn't need it. whatever. I, I, she of course, vehemently is going to deny this and threatens all sorts of things to the, to the Boston Globe paper. But there's another interesting piece to that because ha and his daughter had stayed for at least a week with Mrs. Miles after Sarah was found dead and his room was next to Sarah. Obviously this would've given him ample time to have planted the money potentially. Wow. That kind. Yeah. So, and remember just another little throwback to last week. He is being sort of eyeballed. Okay. Cause been. A little. He's the one that was, a lady, another lady in the town had said, while Sarah was still missing, and he basically Oh, that's great. Said, Well, she's dead. And she's like, What she's missing. He's, he's on the, he's up there as far as suspects are concerned in a lot of people's minds at this point. And al people had the feeling that she, cuz she had worked for him and they had the feeling that she maybe hadn't left on the best of terms with him because they didn't know if it was un unwanted advances or if he wasn't doing well financially, right. And hadn't been paying her as agreed. That was another reason that he kind of stuck out to people. Then when he is making weirdo statements like that, it doesn't help his, his case any he al is not able to provide an alibi for the night. He's, no one can say that they saw him during these times, that kind of thing. And he, at some point, And this could be just embellishment from Yeah, the newspapers of the time, cuz we know they love to do that. But they're, quoting that their, the detective was able to find a witness that was near the site where Sarah was found, but with a large coat, Well that it was William wearing a large coat, even though it was not cold outside and it was inappropriate to be wearing, like, they're saying they can place him that night that she goes missing. They can place him pretty, pretty much near and or at the scene. And he dressed oddly, and he said, Where did he say he was? Huh he's basically just saying, that he's like home. he wasn't with anybody, but even that odd, because he did have a daughter, that lived with him. I think she was around 16, something like that. Not too young to, Yeah, weird. Yeah, not, not too, not too sure. But then here, this is the fun thing about historical true crime, when you can only most of your sources like this author has had to rely on are these newspapers that embellish. If they don't know, they'll make it up kind of things. They're great sources, but they can albe a little, Yeah. Who knows? Just, take that for what it's worth, but these things are not helping. William's case obviously on November, The for hire detectives they search William's property and he is okay with that. He is answering all their questions. They are like, Well, can we, take a look around? And he buy all accounts. He is fine with it and says, Go for it. Knock yourself out. And they do and they go back around to his carriage house and he does not go with them. He doesn't follow them as they are continuing, looking around. Under his What do you called? They call it a jigger. Kind of like his buggy, like his char, his poor drawn, I'm going with buggy. Yeah. What I mean? Like you would sit on it, Carrie, And I feel like we have another word for that. It's not coming. I'm going with carriage still. Yeah. Okay. Under the seat they find a hammer that has his initials on it and a canvas. Piece of large piece of canvas like a tarp. And it's got blood. They've got blood on'em both. Without telling him they collect those two, they take a strip off of, they don't take the whole tarp cuz that'd be obvious. But they cut like a piece with the blood stains, like the heavy blood stains on it, the cut a piece of that. But they do take the, excuse me, hammer, and they don't tell him about that. But what they do is they send them to have them tested to see if they could determine if it was human blood to the University of Maine at Orono. I've never known I passed that sign every time we fly in and I still don't know how to say it anyway. Still university. Still rocking today. The professor there, he confirms that he does believe the hammer does have human blood. He thinks that on the tarp it's likely okay, but he would not testify to it. Mm-hmm. It could be animal blood, something like that. But he, he believes it's probably William does not deny that the hammer is his guy's initials on it. There have been no point really. But he doesn't deny any of that. And then absolutely nothing happens for a long time. They pretty much as far as the detectives are concerned, and probably a lot of people that. Closest involved to, to this at this point. Mm-hmm. They believe he is the guy, but they do not believe that they have enough evidence, which really shocked me. Yeah. Because I thought by 1898 turn, Yeah. I would've thought that was plenty. But last, no. The detectives end up just basically leaving they're like, Oh, well he's the guy. We can't prove it like enough. So, and obviously, They're not gonna get paid, I guess, until, unless he's like, at least brought to trial. I'm not sure. Anyway, they leave and but luckily the, and well, and honestly, it starts to look like just nothing is gonna happen. Like this is just gonna be Yeah. Wow. Unsolved, I don't know. Oh, well however, by the leaders of the town that's the way it's looking. The townspeople, however, they do not agree that this is okay. They begin to talk about this is where some conspiracies and cover ups okay are starting to hit the rumor mill now. Like why would, these, prominent citizens and whatever, be willing to just let this go and not go ahead, and take him to trial to arrest him at least, whatever. So. The citizens form a committee to oversee the investigation. And, and interestingly enough George, we, the brother-in-law who, by his own, he hadn't talked to Sarah in five, six years or something prior to her death, they weren't close or anything like that. But he ends up being one of the, the leaders of that and oversees the the money that has been set aside, basically like it would've been to have paid the detectives mm-hmm. if they had, Close this thing up or for whoever could kind of like a reward fund. They call it a subscription, which was interesting. Mm-hmm. Took me forever to figure out what they were talking about, and I was like, Oh, like a reward fund. I don't. Okay. Everybody in the town at this point has a theory, it's, it's being talked about a lot. There is extreme paranoia of, is there obviously a killer among us kind of thing. And everybody agreed that Sarah was a private, she was an excellent housekeeper, she was frugal and that she had a good reputation. I, everyone could agree on that some. And just to note, all men said or implied in their Coroner's inquest in their testimony that she wasn't always quote sane yeah. and all of the women who actually, interacted with her and talked to her and were friends with and all of that emphatically said she's of sound mind. Okay. Like, just seriously. And that they had never, no one, no one had ever seen her with a suitor. No one could think of hearing anyone that they would think could be an enemy of hers, that she just wasn't that type of person, Again, the walk from the Fogg store should have only taken her 10 minutes to get home. And they alknow that Sarah was never known to take that sort of isolated path really, that she was found on. That wasn't No, and it would not have been on her. This is where, people are now starting to really dig and think about Yeah. what could have possibly happened. So, you start to see a big theory start to come in that, what if she, if she was killed on that path, then she was either coerced to, to get there. Yeah. Forcibly taken there or. The big one that people start to really lean more towards. She wasn't held there. She was dumped there. If you'll remember, her body did appear to be a bit posed, her ankles were crossed or her legs were crossed and her arms were crossed. on her chest, you're not gonna, more than likely, I would think naturally fall would basically, like, almost like the casket pose, I mean that would be, unless that would be, there'd be some odds against that. I would, Sorry,
Yasmine:unless you were wrapped up in a piece of canvas No. For a
Jen:while. Okay. Exactly. And yeah. And people are starting to put, two and two together with the little bits of information that have obviously, trickled out that, that they're finding out and they're, that's why they're starting to heavily lean towards she was dumped there. Also, She was seen by the Foggs with her purse but it was not with her body. Again, people, that's just another thing. Tick the box on the money side of, of things, Could this have been a robbery? or could this have been, something to do with money? Someone didn't want to pay her what they owed her, and therefore, she went to collect it and they Yeah. Yeah. Did that, these are, these are, all of these things are up for grabs. But in general, William is still at the forefront of everybody's mind. And on the suspect list, which obviously the canvas and the hammer did nothing to help that. And then when you have a, and I, I must have skipped over that sentence, but she alhad fractured temple in addition to all the jaw stuff. I think at some point somewhere people I don't remember if it was one of the doctors, it might have been the newspaper, you can't, I don't know for sure, but that there were pretty much like three distinct, points Yeah. Of, and a hammer obviously is, is could easily do all of those things. Shatter your, some jaw, Well, okay. Wait, a
Yasmine:simple, That doctor in the beginning that was saying, he was convinced that it was some kind of wild animal with teeth, right? Right. Okay. But on the, what type of hammer are we talking about here? Is it like a hammer that we have that has one blunt side and one very sharp side with like claw?
Jen:I don't knows a good question. I don't know what 18 bulking
Yasmine:hammer, because hammers were, I don't, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Jen:I'm with you. Yeah. And, and we can get real detailed I won't Yeah, that'd be too far ahead. You can see though, why people question Yeah. Are starting to, and then alstarting to think, well, why is, is he still out and about among us if they have, this evidence and basically, we're able to figure this out surely they have. And now you've got, another, and the, the conspiracy, is there something going on with the upper right, echelons of our, of our town here is something happening Is someone, is there a cover up basically going on? They know he did it or they know who did it, but for whatever reason okay. They don't want this salt. So. Yeah. However, around it, it, I don't think it was on, but it was close to March 10th, 1899. We've gone a few months now. Oh William. Was arrested and at the first initial hearing, the state produces a, just a, a bombshell witness Joseph Fogg Jr. 23, presumably the son of Angeline and Right. her husband that owned the store and the, the town store. And he says that he helped William move a body. He's, he says on September 26th he passed by William's place and William asked him to help him with a job. Doesn't really tell him much more than that. They travel via wagon up to Miles Lane. So, The path where this is all comes to a head about halfway from where Sarah's body was ultimately found. They're about halfway William. They stop. William jumps over a rock wall with a piece of canvas and later comes back to the wagon. Joseph knows that there is a body wrapped up in this canvas, but he does not know if it's an animal or a human either way. He helps load it into the wagon. They go. Further further up this lane, this path. Mm-hmm. to the spot where ultimately Sarah's found and William takes the body and then, comes back, basically tells Joseph not to speak a word or else, obviously this could be you but can Joseph be, Why did he come
Yasmine:out right away?
Jen:Seems that Well, people are kind of, Here's the deal with Joseph. Did he, and remember we're in conspiracy land now, potentially. Did he? But they didn't wanna be hearing any of that. But then when the canvas and the hammer are found by these two outsiders that come in to the detectives when they find this is, now this gonna be a problem? They can't ignore Joseph now they can't keep the lid on Joseph. But the other thing with Joseph is that it seems like he may have been disabled, had an intellectual disability potentially. What we do know, I mean, it's said, the papers were like, Well, he couldn't read or write. He didn't even know if it was 1897 or 1899. But again, 1898, you're, you're not gonna be. Out there, if you don't know how to read and write, that's not gonna be Right. Something abnormal. It's, it's not, especially not in a, in a community like that where you work the land Yeah. The the sea is there, bread and butter, things like that. That's, I I kind of, take that as like, Yeah. It's 1898
Yasmine:not necessarily an
Jen:indication. That's, that's not weird. That's not weird at all. No, it's really not. Not at all. And I'm, that alone doesn't really, phase me one way or another. But there were some, some other things that people described. It definitely sounds like, it might have been a tad odd or whatever. But again, 1898, they didn't know a lot of Right. the things that we know now, that we as humans, we are afflicted with sometimes and, people can't help it, but it has no basis in intelligence and, those kind of things. So, so, but those are gonna be things that, people and I could, and he very well could have been, had an intellectual disability. He very well could have. And that's why, people were like, eh, Joseph likes to tell, tales and, and stuff, However, what they could agree on is that now his story did flex a little bit from time to time. Mm-hmm. when it came to the, the main details didn't waiver a bit, didn't change a bit. That's pretty, Pretty good. The other thing, that comes out is that, Sarah had been seen by many people with her small handbag and alwearing a light, cuz again, apparently it was not cold, And I have to say that man, cuz in September it could have been, like, they never know. But apparently, in 1898 it was not like that. It was a nice day. She was wearing she had her light handbag and she was, had a light shoulder cape on. People had seen her. With that. And at some point, basically she had to be identified by the clothes that she was wearing because of, the, the damage and the time that she had been exposed and things like that. So, people, they noticed, they noticed that and they, and like I said before, many people saw her. It was ridiculous. Like, I, like it was just ridiculous. Yeah. And even like late at night, I'm like, What are y'all doing? Basically, I mentioned her handbag was not found with her body, however, it was found at what Mrs. Miles house.
Yasmine:Hidden. Hidden.
Jen:Hidden under a commode or behind a
Yasmine:commode. But he stayed there, right? He stayed there. Wait, who stayed there? Yes, he did. Yes. Okay.
Jen:Yeah, yeah, yeah. William and his daughter, Yeah, they stayed there after, right after. Yeah. she was found, her body was found for what reason? Yeah, I haven't, if it's gonna come out, I haven't seen it yet. Well, it could have just been because Ms. Miles did need a companion and he's got his 16, 16 year old daughter. Could have been. And they were friends. Cause remember last week they came and, and, and had Sunday dinner with her all the time. his, they were close to her. That, actually, I might just solve my own question on that, but so, but the the, the light shoulder cape what, But guess what was there? Sarah's heavy rain cape had been put behind her head. That's why they didn't know how sleep her head was attacked to her body. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And people when they hear this, the, especially probably the ladies, they were like, No, no, no, no, no. She was not, she did not have that. and, and they basically, everybody is testifying and saying no. She was only known to wear that when it rained. Essentially it sounded like it was, basically like a rain jacket, what I mean? Like, we're not gonna on a hot, sunny day or whatever, take our rain jacket cuz we all know those things are blessed hot, If you've got something else to just knock off the evening chill a pretty decent September evening, you're gonna wear that over the hot, rain coat. And that is where.
Yasmine:Oh my. We're
Jen:gonna leave part two and part three we will get into the trials. Yes. Plural. And some of the other interesting things that come to light. Also, the fact that Bucksport was evidently the place where people went to have very strange and unexplained deaths. And if we remember Mrs. Miles was a big part of the spiritualism movement, as with Sarah's in-laws. And she tries to connect with Sarah and there's just a lot more to come. That's
Yasmine:exciting. Oh my gosh. Good job. That was good. Oh, yes. I have theories, I have questions. Wow. I cannot wait to the rest of it.
Jen:Yes, exactly. Yeah. Ugh.
Yasmine:How do I follow that Well, we're staying in New England today. I was doing lots of, of searching of what I should do and and I kind of stumbled on this story or this haunted place. I wasn't really looking for a haunted place, but this interested me because it has some well, I, I'm really interested in Henry VIII and his wives and all the history of. thing And it just tie a little bit of space and read the eighth and I was like, Oh. Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. Yeah, it kind of hit that excitement for me. Okay. We're gonna talk about Deadly Town Connecticut. It is reported to be one of the most haunted places. One of the YouTube videos that I was watching said The haunt most haunted place in the world. He kept saying that over and over again, I don't think, I dunno about that. That bold is pretty haunted. My sources I use today are make makeup and Spook at on YouTube. Christina, she, she told the story and put her makeup on. It was a really fun way to tell a story. Obviously Wikipedia always American haunting sync.com. Only in your state.com. Yeah, I, yeah, there's a lot in there. Like your state, Deadly Town Woods, actual footage on YouTube, again, damned connecticut.com. Seaside Shadows by Courtney, which she tells stories on Facebook and if, let me just give her a shout out because it was interesting and engaging. The way she told the story, she was outside by a fire. She, read some quotes from some books. It was great. Seaside Shadows by Court haunted rooms.com and I 95 rock.com and that is a radio station. I was like, this is a crazy article, but it was good. Okay, Duly Town Connecticut was settled in 1740. Several members of the Dudley family three brothers to be exact, were some of the earliest settlers and it's not actually a town. It's called Duly Town, but it's basically an unincorporated area of Cornwall and it's reported that the duly family is the, is from England. And I'm gonna give some history on those guys and that they brought their curse with them. Curse nice. Yeah, no, they do. Oh. Have thoughtful. Great. Curses, Anyways, well okay, the Dudleys, Okay, here we go. Edmond Dudley. He's the one that basically started the curse. He was a privy counselor of Henry the seventh, and he's, if you guys don't know what a privy counselor is, he's basically the closest of the close to the king. He even goes to the restroom with him, that's the most private of positions only at the age of 23. He was one of the definitely favorites of the King Henry the seventh. Upon Henry the seventh death, he was imprisoned and charged with the crime of constructive. I don't know if you, Henry the seventh won his crown in war and by marrying. The previous King's daughter. Two ways, but there was still always a it was always upheaval when you go from one king to the next. Especially back then. We saw this, oh, sure, past couple weeks that it was quite smooth that was nice to see. But right, that's kind of, it could have been all at war and obviously treason. What constructive treason is, it's, it's a like a judicial term. It's an extension of the statutory definition of treason. It's like in place of actually doing something treasonous. You didn't stab the king in the back, but you planned for and thought about the king's death. What he did is he rounded up. Well, he, Okay, I'm gonna stay at a, like, nicer than rounded up his posse. he, he ordered his friends to assemble arms. It was other note to assemble arms in case the king died. But because he was a privy counselor, he had inside information, he knew the king was not feeling well. Right. It was found out though that it wasn't just in case it was albecause he wanted to protect himself from the growing unpopularity of his financial dealing boo. Yeah. He was beheaded when Henry Thei took over. It's like yeah. I would be old That's fair. I would be old. And with the
Jen:is any, are you alnow like thinking like constructive criticism?
Yasmine:I think, yeah, I thought about that too because usually constructive criticism, I mean, you're telling the person their negative thing. Anyways. Yeah, no, but constructive is basically a term to use like for a far out idea, just an idea rather than the actual thing. But yeah, no, that definitely correlates Okay, so, he is, Edmond is where the curse began. Unfortunately, his son was ala noble man, nobleman and followed in his footsteps. He was the first Duke of North Umberland Edmond's Official title was Minister of Henry that to Henry the seventh when he died. And unfortunately, John Dudley was ultimately alexecuted sorry. Oh, upon Henry the Eighth's death, his son and Air Edward, his uncle Edward Seymour. The first oral of Somerset was named Lord Protector. His brother Thomas, caused all kinds of problems over the years, stirred stuff up, and eventually they were both removed and X vm, John Duley No, really, I mean, well looking for error. I mean, the uncle did kind of kidnap him and then the other uncle refused to press charges. Yeah, it's pretty, it was pretty bad. Yeah. Anyways, Okay, that's fair. John Deadly was made Lord protector. To the 15 year old King. Edward was super young once, Lord protector, and while King Edward was having a difficult time trusting his sisters, his older sister, Mary. Catholic a lot allied with the Spanish. His younger sister was Protestant which her mother had pushed for while she was queen. King Edward changed the succession to once again skip his royal sisters and name his cousin, Lady Jane Gray, who alhappened to be Dudley's daughter-in-law. And yeah, he named her his heir and she was alprotest. No one knew the young king would fall ill and succumb to his illness before his 16th birthday. That had just happened. His cousin was queen for nine days. She never wanted the crown. It said that she went to it very reluctantly. When Mary took the throne, he was convicted of high treason and executed. That's why he was executed. Jane, unfortunately, and her husband, Lord Gilford, who was dudley's, they were alexecuted later on in 1554 when people kept trying to get behind them to do more taking over, I guess to, to Ous to Mary. She didn't want to execute her cousin, but she ended up having to because people kept getting behind her also. At the very end John deadly converted from Protestantism back to Catholicism before he was killed. There's a lot of debate on whether he was just following orders upon King Edward's death or having much more Ilu. Did he surrender before capturing? Oh, he did surrender albefore capturing Mary and converted to Catholic. Both. But then there's the other side of it. Henry the eighth did execute his dad, maybe he still had, a grudge for these guys, for the, Henry the eighth and his son, and then he was trying to place his daughter-in-law on the above, the daughters of the king who killed his dad. So, I mean, pretty good. So, so, such a bad idea. It's a terrible idea. Like, What is that conflict of interest? I mean, that should have done you from the start, like, Oh, for sure. Yeah. Nepotism. Unfortunately, the curse of the Deadly continues. His third son, Robert Dudley, was the first oil, oil, was the first Earl of Lester the first Earl of Lester. He was a suitor and favorite of the first Queen Elizabeth rumor and scandal about their relationship and the untimely death of his wife Amy in their country home led to him having to stay out of court. He was kicked out of court. He, he actually earned a place at the royal decision making table. And it is thought that it's, he eventually left England. There's, there's kind of debate back and forth that either he was the one that left England and it was his descendant William who. Eventually settled Duly town. We're getting there. there's lots of history we're getting there. Or it could have been one of his children who left and then it was there just either way. It's, kind of back and forth with history and stuff like that. So, that is the dudleys. It's thought that duly town was settled by descendants of the deadly family from England and that their curse followed them across the Atlantic. But since it's been abandoned for long, there is no lasting proof. It's been abandoned since the early 19 hundreds, it's been abandoned a very long time. I'll get into more dates since we kind of talk about the tragic happenings, in the town, but, Okay. How old are you? Okay, the settlement, this guy named Tom Griffs. Griffith Griffs, Yeah. Followed by Gideon Dudley. In 1753 and they were soon followed by Bari Dudley and Ale Dudley kinda looks like Abel, but with an i, an extra eye abi. But this bar Z, it's b a R Z I L l, Far Zli AI Z, that's a name for sure. And then their younger brother Martin. Yeah. Deadly Yes. Thank you. My goodness. And they brought, Thank you, Martin, their families and several other families to settle in the area. It was a dense Connecticut forest. And they transformed it into farmland. They. Tackled it, I guess into being, yeah, into being farmland. I looked on thes and while I was doing research and I just am shocked by the green compared to where I'm at. It's incredible. But and zoom in a little bit, I still just see green everywhere. It's amazing. They really had to tackle this yeah, these hills because it was in hills and the soil was not very fertile. They had to put their farm land like on top of a hill because other places between these hills, there was no proper sunlight. There was no adequate sunlight for growing. That could have been one of the issues why it didn't stay populated for too long. That's one of the things that that is said about it. And there's much better soil West. People started migrating, people did start legitimately making farms and things like that. The village is actually situated between three hills, the town was dark starting at noon every day. Crazy, right? Yeah. Like, like sundown at new every day. That is yeah. In 19 weird 24, a company called Dark Entry Forest Incorporated bought the property and the village side is now close to the public, but is still trespassed off. They actually have a really heavy police presence at all times, which is really interesting. Like why I guess in 19, Yeah. Oh, let's do this one first. Maybe that, maybe we'll get there. Well, I guess in 1970 of Warrens. From the Conjuring fame, I guess. They went there in the 1970s and did an investigation and what they said was that Dudley Town, I see what their actual quote was. I'll probably get to it in my notes later, but that it was, Oh, the Warren, oh, here we go. They declared it officially demonically possessed and I searched and search, Yeah, officially. Oh, I searched and searched. There was a special they did on TV and it aired on, I wanna say it's one of the old, old, one of those that are and I was looking for a clip. I was hoping there was a clip of it, but I could not find it because of all the other things that are much more popular with them, Annabel and sponsoring and all that stuff
Jen:about them. About Amna
Yasmine:Bill. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, they went there, they did their investigation officially demonically over here. Okay. So, and in 1999, the Blair Witch Project, even though it was filmed in Maryland, prompted renewed interest in the village. People started to remember, Oh wow, we have this thing in our woods over here. Let's go check it out. And it just kind of created this renewed, like I said, renewed interest in hiking the woods and stuff like that. Just because they were like, Oh, I remember this thing from way back when that somebody told me about, Let's go see. Oh, and my parents said this. They saw these guys on TV and Yeah.
Jen:Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, that local. So, I mean, I imagine,
Yasmine:because apparently now there's differing sources that say whether or not there's actually people that live there, but. if someone does live there, I imagine having hikers in your backyard constantly doing weird stuff on their trumping around with their video.
Jen:I'm just curious. I say, Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Not
Yasmine:just, Not just hikers. Not just hikers, Right. Normal investigators, people that think, I mean, maybe they, they don't realize that they're in someone's backyard, but I bet that would get really an honest beat. Mm-hmm. I don't know how I got off on that tangent. I don't remember what I was saying. But for a time, Dudley Town actually did well in their when it was first put together. They participated in the lumber trade but there were never any shops or schools or churches, they had to come out of, their little village to go to Cornwall and other places often for school and church and things like that. There were strange occurrences from the start. Many disappearances, unexplained deaths and instances of people losing their minds. Yeah. Lovely. Yeah. Wow. For such a small, tiny area cuz it's only about a thousand acres, but those acres alinclude hills, not where the village proper would be. It's not a very big town and no stores, no car, like, no real commerce of any kind. And for that much, Bizarre tragedy to be happening is, is pretty significant. I'm gonna tell you some of those. ooh, quick sip. Okay. abi abi. A bell, a bell. Dudley was one of the original founders. He lived his whole life in Dudley, even after losing his property, his fortune and becoming ward of the town. He stayed there. Two, his older two brothers, or his other two brothers, wow, have long since left. Because they couldn't make money there anymore. And unfortunately, a bell suffered from Sonali Sonali during his final years. He went a little bananas. His brothers who left, they did not suffer the same fate, they attribute his ality to staying in newly. Yeah, stay. In 1792, Han Hollister, a good friend and neighbor of a bell was killed while helping another neighbor, William Tanner, build a barn. He was smashed. Something fell on him. Yeah. William Tanner, unfortunately alsuffered from Ility in his old age. He claimed strange creatures came out of the woods at night. Uhhuh. Yeah. No, Remember the strange creatures? Love that. There's a couple, I talk about it a couple more times. Remember, never forget this. It's okay. Nathaniel Carter moved into a Bell's House in 1759. Obviously once he was gone, a plague swept through Duly town and Cornwall, and many relatives of Nathaniel died. Yeah. He moved there. What. Like his brother and his family. He had his own family, wife and kids. And then he moved there with like a bunch of other relatives in kin based mm-hmm. Um, And a lot of those guys died. His little family is fine far. They end up moving out of Deadly Town after that happens because they were sad and it was really tragic in, that's in 1763 and they moved to Bing Hampton, New York? Is that how I say that? Bing. He, Binghamton. Bingham.
Jen:Binghamton, I usually try to just say things like that fast
Yasmine:cause it's definitely not being Hampton Bighamton. anyways. Oh, okay. The Carters believed in the curse of Duly town. Even in those early years, the Carters moved. To the Delaware Wilderness in the heart of Native Territory. They got out and they moved to New York. I don't know how well established Big Times. Oh. But then moved from there to the Delaware Wilderness in the heart of Native Territory, and they experienced an attack and Natives killed Nathaniel, his wife and their infant child. They kidnapped the three other children. The two daughters were Ransom, and the son stayed with the natives, grew up with them, married a native woman, and eventually went on to edit a newspaper and become a justice in the Supreme Court. That was I mean, that's one like awesome story out of like a lot of sadness and terrible. I, I don't know how I feel about that, but the Carters vehemently believed in the curve. I don't know if them giving energy to it, maybe. Eh, I don't know. I don't know. That one's tough because. His story too does alcoincide with their an some duly ancestors, where one of the, I, I believe it was a Gilford, but not the one that was executed with Lady Jane Gray went somewhere and brought the plague back to his troops and then his troops took the plague to their family. This kind of draws a little bit of parallel, and I think that's why this story is really significant. Also, I got some plague happening. Yeah, and we got a Supreme Court justice out of it for a while. Do, do that with, I don't know. Sorry, I have to, I have to. Oh. I's finding silver lining lining story? I mean, I don't know what happened to his sisters. They were, they were, the ransom was paid, but they were then orphans. like, sad, Right. So, okay. Another story was of general Herman Swift. He served in the Revolutionary War under George Washington in 1804. His wife Sarah Faye, was struck by lightning while standing on her front porch. She died in, Yeah. And they, their house is holy. Dang it. Now, I forget the name of the road, but there's a specific road that in Cornwall that leads to this Dudley town. It was apparently one way to get there. I'm sure you can hike other ways, but there's this one main road and they're situated on the main road, not necessarily in Dudley Town. It's like kind of no man's land. But she was still struck and killed. Simply. She was just hanging out on the porch. General Swift was rumored to have gone insane. Following his wife's tragic debt. That's a bummer. Yeah. Wow. So, okay, we're in 1804 now about a hundred years later, 1901. By this time the town is all but deserted. One of its last residents, John Patrick Brok and his wife and two children seemed to have been dealt the final blow of the curve. First his wife died of consumption not long after they moved there. Was not unusual for the time and she had been sick, so. Right. But with what people say, and I'm gonna get to that with what people, how people feel when they're there. It maybe makes sense that she kind of succumbed to her illness once they moved there. Unfortunately just after the funeral, his two children disappeared in the fourth and were never found. Yes. What, there's rumor or or speculation that the kids were getting into trouble already. There had been like some stolen horse blankets and yeah, just little like not super serious crimes or anything like that kid stuff. Right. But for them to go, people are saying, Oh, maybe they, after their mom died, maybe they ran away, but they were kid, they were like eight, like probably five. I think they saw they were kid and they were gone forever. Yeah. While it does not end there for Mr. Brok he's alone in his house, and it caught, it catches fire unex, like with no explanation. Not only did it catch fire, but it burned to the ground. Nothing he's left with nothing. Mr. Broy himself then wandered into the forest never to be seen again. Yeah. Terrible, right? Oh, okay. Okay. So, okay, that was 1901. This one said around 1900. It's kind of an estimated time. This Dr. William Clark and his wife moved to Cornwall. I could not find her name, which I bums me out. the doctor, wife, Yeah. But anyway, Oh no. I, The doctor and his wife moved to Cornwall. They loved the forest and they bought a thousand acres, which included deadly town. They basically bought that whole unincorporated forest area. Okay. Which had the village of the still standing, even though it sounds like only a couple people lived there. They built their summer home in the hills up there. He and his wife enjoyed the mountains and they visited their vacation home often. In 1918, Dr. Clark and his wife were staying in their vacation home when the doctor was called away. Not an abnormal occurrence for these guys. He's a doctor and they, I mean, even doctors now get called away at the, when something happened, his wife stayed. By the time the doctor returned, less than 36 hours later, she had gone completely insane. She told Dr. Clark about strange creatures that come out of the forest and attacked. She unfortunately committed suicide soon after. Yeah, just like that. She's fine and he comes back and she's raving about these strange creatures and could not calm her down, and then she's gone with that. I believe Wow. With what it sounds like, what it all looks like is that his. Corporations. Dr. Clark, he was the one that created, I forget the name. I wanna say Dark Forest. Oh that.
Jen:Oh, how could I forget? That's those. Yeah. Start with an S I thought
Yasmine:I forgot cuz I was talking about Henry It's a problem.
Jen:It's a problem. I forgot to
Yasmine:Dark Entry Forest Incorporated. That's 1924. Dark entry. I believe it was one of his children when he died because that whole thousand acres has stayed together in that dark entry. It's been owned consistently since then. I was seeing some stuff about it being auctioned a few years ago, but I didn't have time to really research that too, too much. Because even if it was auctioned, it seems like it was all kept together anyway. Still a thousand acres. Now signs are posted and gates are locked to trespassers and hike. I mentioned before, it's not known if there's current residences. It's not known fully, but it's thought that there's a few people that do live there. Visitors of duly town report heavy darkness. The silence is noted. Everybody that I, that I, everything I read, every video that I watch talked about the silence. It's loud.
Jen:Ooh. Yeah. Because normally if you're surrounded by woods, you're, you're gonna, there's that ambient sound. Yeah, exactly. You hear of being in a forest. Yeah. Right. You hear an animal scurry
Yasmine:leaves rustling. They're, they're saying there's none of that. Nothing investigate. Yeah. And how do you live there? Oh, to be, Oh, wow. Investigators believe there's a vortex or thin veil to the next world in deadly town. I mentioned the Warrens hikers have seen and filmed orbs. Okay. I watched a couple of these videos and legitimately okay on, on TikTok. I don't know if I mentioned TikTok as a contributor to my story today, but what I was waiting to, to jump on today, I was like, Oh, let me just see what, But you could see shadow figures moving across in front of trees and things like that. You could see orbs kind of moving and at. I, I don't know. Oh, I, I tend to be a believer on that type of stuff. I don't receive that. Yeah, TikTok man. It's silent. It's without wildlife. Really very, yeah, very quiet. So, Oh, I have this quote, Yeah. From this man named Nicholas Robert Grossman, who did show up quite a bit in articles. And he is a paranormal investigator, specifically in like the New England area. And he, he has this quote, but I'm not going to give it to you word for word because you could tell he was on the radio station. This, is that the source from the radio station, the I 95 or whatever. Because he does a, a lot of like ums and s, and in my like stuff like that. I'm just kind of, Get to the good stuff, but this is personal, right? He says there is something very special about the place. I believe that it's haunted with my evidence that I got there, but there is something very special about the place. When you walk into the heart of duly town, you won't hear animals, you won't hear birds, you won't hear anything. It's just this void. It's almost like I often describe if you've been inside of a music studio and the acoustics, muffle and the sound, that's the kind of feeling you get and the sound. That's the kind of feeling you get with your ear while walking up there. Well, if you hold your hands near your ears, but don't touch them, you hear muffling. There's definitely a void up there. Some type of vortex, some type of portal. Honestly, I believe Deadly Town is more. Interdimensional thing going on that it is like spirits and stuff like that. I think it's its own unique type of thing, and I've had a lot of strange phenomena. I remember one time I was walking down the trail and there was no wind. I was saying goodbye to the supernatural there. I always do with respect to a, with respect, and a fern was waving up and down. I went in front of the fern to make sure there was no wind doing it. The thing was waving like it was waving. The place is alive. It's a force that is very much alive with phenomena. Thank you. Send it back. Don't, don't want it
Jen:I, I'm just, Yeah. If you have a forest and you don't ever see any wildlife red flag, that for sure a major problem. Because isn't that what they say? Like I don't know what kind of weather event, like a, we call it tsunami or something like that. People will say like, Yeah, like you'll, the birds will stop. If you people pay attention that there's signs from nature like that you can, I don't like the animals and stuff.
Yasmine:Go fight if you pay attention. Competitor too. I mean, some lurking. Oh, I don't know.
Jen:Yeah. I do
Yasmine:Yeah, you, you can't get into it. Like Oh, that's wild. That's I think what has a lot of people really, really especially interested because I mean, you could, Oh, the Queen Mary, for instance, like you can go visit the Queen Mary, you can go on a tour in the Queen Mary and ex, like, have stories. Yeah. And maybe possibly experience, paranormal happenings because it still happens. But for them to say, Absolutely, you cannot come in and you will get prosecuted. I mean, one of the videos that I watched today the guy was say they were stopped by police because they were parked too close to it, and he almost gave him a ticket for being illegally parked, just for being there. Like, it's serious stuff and like, what are you, like, what's in there? What are you hiding? Like I get, you don't want people to be in your backyard all the time, tramping around and stuff like that, but it's like almost creating more interest in like, Oh, you can't see. Oh, you don't know. And I don't know, maybe that is a plan for that. Like who knows, Who knows? But what
Jen:is the, and not just made me realize that we started watching it and then we didn't finish. But more out your way out west there is a very similar No situation. Yeah, no. Well, I mean, yes, but no. Oh my gosh. I'm never gonna, I don't remember what we were watching it on. I'm gonna have to look and see. Anyway, it was like a discovery channel. Was it like mountains? I think it still on desert. On the beach. Yes. Well, desert. Yeah. Desert. Oh no. Superstition. Mountains. No. Uhhuh. No. I mean, that's a thing. I'm gonna have to find it and, and a we need to let my husband know we need to get back into like, finishing it. Cause it was really starting to get good and I don't know what happened that we got out of it, but anyway basically this SuperDuper like mega rich man has purchased this property and basically he employs these extreme security measures to keep people out of it. And they have had some massive wow stuff caught. And he like has paid to bring these like, like basically like he assembled sort of a team, like best of the best like in the scientific community to try to figure out, this one guy he, he brought in he. I don't know if he's retired from NASA Uhhuh. But basically he worked for na, he basically is a rocket scientist, basically like a real one. And to, and they set up these like insane experiments to try and out NASA guy that came out later and
Yasmine:was telling all the secret. Oh, okay, okay. Okay. Wait, Okay.
Jen:I don't know. We didn't finish it, I don't know to sound familiar. I can't like the name of it. The name of it is like, I can't even get like a letter to even try and do as a quick goo but oh, well,
Yasmine:Okay. Yeah. Just seriously, I'll have for next week.
Jen:Wait, was it what you're thinking of? Was he like, like secrets? Like as in like, like good secrets or secrets as in like that whole thing was like fake.
Yasmine:Oh, okay. I don't know if it's the same thing. Cause what we were, we were listening to a podcast same, but the guy was on it. Oh, the NASA guy.
Jen:Was he like Super
Yasmine:Southern said the same one. Dang. See these NASA guys just
Jen:But those secrets sound fun. Yeah. Yeah, they were good. Those secrets sound fun though. what you're talking about. Ah, okay.
Yasmine:Okay. Tangent. That's alright.
Jen:Now I'm like, yeah, that's okay. Yeah, somebody's probably like listening. They're gonna be like, ah, like whatever the name show is, they're screaming it, name the guy. Or like I do sometimes when I'm listening and Yeah. And people can't think of like the, and I'm over here like, Ah. But yeah, it's gone. Okay. Well that was that And sorry, on my half or my part about the, the part three. But as you can tell, it just like keeps getting, It really does more and more insane and the more people they're
Yasmine:aware, brought in, more people are talked to, the crazier it's, it's getting. Wow. Well, I cannot wait. Yes. Yeah. You want me to take us out? All right, Well thanks for listen. Take us out everybody. You can follow us on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram at Mavensofmisdeeds. Find us on Twitter, Mavensmisdeeds, email us. At mavensofmisdeeds@gmail.com, send us some of your stories. Or if the name of the NASA guy, show that we were talking about Oh no. Can check out help website at mavensofmisdeeds.com and
Jen:please go to iTunes or if you listen on a platform that allows reviews please go and give us a five star and just write a few words. Anything we would love to, to have that. And I do wanna thank we did get actually a couple of reviews that were five star. Yeah, thank you to those that that listened to that spiel and did that. Appreciate it. We'll see you guys next time. Bye.
