Mysterious Fate of Theodosia Burr and Ghostly Passengers on Lonely Roads

Hello Mavens!  Yasmine and I are back with another episode of spookiness and maybe a brief history lesson or two.  You have watched "Hamilton" at least once, but do you know the incredible mystery surrounding Theodosia Burr's disappearance/death?  Was it simply the weather or could pirates be to blame?  Yasmine completes our otherworldly discussion with spine tingling tales about The Ladies of White that appear throughout the world.  Don't forget to check your back seat and NEVER pick up hitchhikers!

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Transcript

Yasmine: 0:06

Yes. Hello everyone. How are you? So good talking to you again today? Yes.

Jen: 0:12

So I have no idea what Yasmine has chosen to talk about. I know. So it's gonna be a, a total surprise for me, which I love. We didn't give ourselves much time like two days, couple of days. Yeah. between recording our last episode and this one, but I am so nerdy that I have notes started on a plethora of subjects and highlighted books and all these things. So one that really stuck out to me is an interesting story disappearance sea mystery and also it's got politics. Ooh, yes.

Yasmine: 0:49

Edgy.

Jen: 0:50

And it sort of takes place. Like I said, it's a big mystery, but mostly we think it took place around Nags Head, North Carolina, and I just for the first time ever visited there with my dad, we did the whole history tour there. Oh, cool. About three weeks ago now. So it was, I thought it was time to bring this, this story out into the light. So I have titled this, the Mysterious Fate of Theodosia Burr.

Yasmine: 1:20

Oh, I have chills. Oh my gosh. I don't know. I know just the very minimum about her. I'm so excited.

Jen: 1:28

Oh, well this is great. And I didn't even think about, well, nevermind people haven't gotten there in their head yet. I'm not gonna go there. So certain Broadway musical fans might, have yeah. This ring in their head now. So I love this because it combines local legend and lore as well as a potential historical true crime aspect. So this was right up my alley and to do a little bit of background and get the. Political part out of the way I am not a ginormous fan of politics, but I do love the history of our of our system and of our country, how it got started. And especially when you have things like this so many of you history mavens will probably know the name, Aaron Burr, and he was a junior. He lived from 1756 to 1836 and he was the third vice president of the United States. And he had an interesting way of getting there. So basically him and good old TJ, Thomas Jefferson tied in the electoral college and they hadn't really thought that one through if that kind of thing were to happen. They also, hadn't really instructed people to say which they were voting for. Like, are you voting for him to be president or vice president? So that was a whole thing that they had to figure out and fix, for moving forward. But obviously we know he did not end up being president So long story short, he believed that his longtime political nemesis enemy, whatever Alexander Hamilton had influenced the Federalist controlled house of representatives to have him in the vice president slot instead of as president. And he definitely was not super respected by Thomas Jefferson. It was very clear that There was history there, but it was also very clear that Hamilton probably had great influence in how he was perceived. So it wasn't taken very seriously by the president, just, it wasn't a, wasn't a good scene for him. So he pretty well knows that he's not gonna be renominated for to run, for the next term, he's not gonna be on the ticket as a vice president or, or otherwise. So he so after this, so 1804, he was nominated for governorship, but he lost that too. And he also believed that that was because of Hamilton and which it probably was. And so he challenges Hamilton to a duel. Yes. And you're like, It's a little late for duels, not too terribly, but yeah, I mean, they are illegal. And they are illegal where they are and they are illegal in New York and New Jersey. But he decides bird decides that they're gonna do it New Jersey, because it's sort of less illegal there. Basically in that they're you, they're not gonna punish you as badly as if you have it in New York. So, so his name left me for just a second Hamilton agrees to this and they go, and as we know, I believe it was, yeah. So on July 11th, 1804 Burr does shoot Hamilton and he is gravely injured. He dies the next day from those injuries. So Burr is arrested and charged with treason and he is ultimately acquitted of that. Basically I think it, isn't it something about the country wasn't in active war at the time. So treason wasn't an applicable charge. It was something

Yasmine: 5:23

like that. Some loophole type

Jen: 5:25

thing. Yeah. And I was kinda like, why did they even choose treason in the first place? Doesn't matter anyway, could have just gone for straight murder or something. I would've thought. But anyway so he ends up self exiling to Europe for four years. I imagine to let the, heat die down a little bit. Let someone else become the story and move on, from from him. And so he stays in Europe for, until he returns to New York in June of 1812. So why am I talking about him? Because his life is definitely no mystery no mystery there. So now I will introduce you to his daughter. Theodosia Burr she was born 1783 and she was incredibly close to her father. I know that her mother had died and she sort of took over being sort of the, the lady of the household. I don't know exactly how early in her life her mother died. So but anyway, she does that, her father dos on her, he makes sure that she has an education to rival any man, which of course we know was unheard of. For that, that time even if your dad liked you he wasn't gonna educate you but he doesn't do that. He absolutely makes sure. And she is very well known for her intellect how sophisticated she was in any situation you, would throw at her, she could adapt to and come out on top. And so, and also she was a lot of the newspapers of the time described her as, stunning and beautiful and, and all of those things. So I guess she's the whole package. I don't. Wow. 10 outta 10 10 outta 10 would recommend. Yes. Oh goodness. Anyway, so she, so his self exile very hard on her because of their closeness and so she does end up getting married to the South Carolina. Well, he would become quickly the South Carolina governor Joseph Austin. They have a son who she names Aaron mm-hmm or Austin he's born in may of 1802. However, he dies of tropical fever in 1812, and 1812 is not going to be her year, well that into 1813. So they'd said that she suffered from, as they would call it fragile health. So Lord knows what that even means. It could be that she was depressed to some, mental illness to, who knows, all women are hysterical and even if you're as smart as she is, so Lord knows what that diagnosis even means. But no doubt. She is very, very depressed over the loss of her son. And also that her father is has been gone. She hasn't had that support system and she very much supported him throughout his trial for treason, which much like today drug on for a bit from the, from the date of the duels and he was arrested. So so she'd been under a lot of stress and I think it's also mentioned being the first lady her husband being governor and so a lot of pressure on her and a lot of stresses. And then you add the death of her son and, she's not in a good place. And so she hoping her father gets there. And so by the fall of 1812 he's in New York and she's of course in South Carolina in Charleston I imagine. Yeah. And so. He writes to her and I'll have links to some newspapers that have the letters published that some letters that he had written that they wrote back and forth, as well as her husband and her wrote back and forth before they were married. Yeah, really cool. And so anyway he's like, Hey, can I cheer you up? I want you to come, visit me. I think, change of scenery. All of that would be, would be good for us to, actually be together again and see each other face to face. Her husband is not big on this idea and he's got good reason to be 18, 12 ring a bell the war of 1812. So it's not a great time for you to be traveling by sea because well, yeah, the British were there and they, you had that so you had the risk of, of, of bad things happening. So you're sort of, you're. Tail end of hurricane season. Hm, pretty sure. I know October starts hurricane season, so this I haven't gotten to the date yet, but so I think storms are a possibility, well, they're always possibility on the sea, but I'm pretty sure you're in prime time. Or at least the tail end of prime time for for tropical storms and that kind of thing. So that's not good. And he's not gonna be able to go with her because he's governor and there's a war of 1812 happening he's busy. Right. And so he's, not loving all of those things and of course these papers of the day, very sensational, so who knows, but they say he had, just a, a overwhelming sense of doom about the, the whole thing, the whole trip. So they try to oh, and pirates also not thrilled because yes, we have, the British or, and all of this, we have storms and we have pirates. So so her dad and him try to mitigate some of the risk. Her husband decides he, he chooses the ship that she's going to get on. And it is happily called the Patriot and it is known for its reliability. It's speed. And it, it's got a, a good track record. Her dad finds a friend of his a doctor I believe, who agrees to make the, the trip with her. So she won't be by herself, so on. And it's kind of weird this all everywhere. It was either December 30th or December 31st, whichever of 1812 she boards Patriot, which was a schooner at Charleston Harbor. And basically she, along with the crew. and all the other passengers were never seen again.

Yasmine: 11:31

That quickly.

Jen: 11:35

Oh my goodness. But obviously, I don't know. And I even had a note here could look up about how long would that have taken to have gotten to New York? I didn't remember, but anyway, so I don't know. In 1812 on a Schooner, I don't know how long that would've taken you to get from Charleston, South Carolina, up to, to New York. But,

Yasmine: 11:55

well, I don't know how big a schooner is, but I'm pretty sure that that they stay and they could still see the shore. So they wouldn't have been that far out. I don't think, especially if you're just going north, you're not going across anything.

Jen: 12:09

See that's one of the, that's gonna be one of the really cool theories. The one that. Well, I don't know if I wanna believe it or not. That'd be kind of dark with me. So anyways so after the appropriate time, I think I did read somewhere like after a couple of weeks and there had been no word, okay. And they start to like, eh, this isn't great. I feel, this isn't, this, this isn't great. So ultimately though the ship is definitely overdue for sure. And they, they choose, it said that her father and husband, choose to believe that they were just lost at sea, a storm happened. And and that was that. And I actually did find, but then it's written upside down cause I'm a genius like that. Let's see. Cause I did actually find from in a log book from another, a nearby. Ship that where the heck did I wrote it down? Anyway, I wrote it down somewhere. I'm gonna find it now somewhere out of order. But anyway, they did figure out that on like, oh man, maybe two or three days after it set sail, there was a massive storm. And so, and it was just like just off the coast of Cape Hatteras. And so, that could definitely be what happened, So we do know there was a storm, but I mean, then other people are like, but that ship and other ships, they didn't, have any issues. So, who knows, but that is the really boring theory.

Yasmine: 13:54

And, and probably the one that is more likely

Jen: 13:58

Occam's Razor, it's probably what happens. But anyway, Yasmine,

Yasmine: 14:00

sorry. I wanna hear the ones. No, that's where I say this is gonna be a little bit dark. So I'm kinda like, I, I, yeah, I choose to also be with her husband and father. That probably is what happened, but it not, there's a lot of compelling evidence. I gotta say. That could mean something else. So then I freaking, yeah, I wrote it down right there. Anyway, about the weather. So in 1820 a I'm calling him a retired pirate. I don't know what else you call them. He told an Alabama newspaper. That he and his crew had plundered the Patriot and killed everyone on board. Why did he say that? Right. So more to come on. Some of that then 1833, 2 pirates, who were ultimately sentenced to death. They were on trial in Norfolk, Virginia, and they confessed to luring the ship out onto the rocks in Nags, Head, North Carolina. And then once the ship, of course is basically run a ground or it's, it's stuck, they boarded the ship. They they plunder it. They do all that stuff that pirates do. And this gentleman's name was, this pirate was Benjamin burdock, bur Nope, Burdick. and he says that he vividly remembers Theodosia. Wow. Because he was in charge of helping while making all of them walk the plank and ultimately drown. And that, he says she was the last one off and her face has haunted him all these years, even though he had, been a part of killing lots and lots of people, because he was actually part of a famous pirate. John Lafe. Yeah, that was French. And I'm sure it's supposed to be said just like that in case he was part of his game, so, oh, wow. So, so this is a deathbed confession for, for him dying at an S house in Michigan at this. So anyway, so he is saying he remembers her because the, the look on her face, she was just utterly, just terrified. And I would imagine being the last one, I mean, I'm always one of those weirdos, like I will volunteer even though, like in speech class or something you just don't want to, do'm always the one just like, let's just, let's just do this. Like I can't sit here and watch everybody, like deal. I gotta just get this over with and move on with my life. So that probably would've been, I don't know, I could see me doing that and that situation can't last that's okay. Just too much. Can't do this psychological torture. And he also said he vividly remembers that she was clutching a Bible and did so as she drowned and disappeared between the waves. So many historians say that they totally reject. His whole story because her and her father were not known to be religious. However, I say to that many, many people get religion when they know they are facing death. Right. So I wouldn't rule that out just based on that right. Personally. I mean, I see what you mean.

Jen: 17:37

Yeah. So I'm not killing the legend on that. So a second less weird, it's weird and less likely, but and by the way, I get a lot of this from library of Congress. So it's, as legit as it can be for legend So this one is just whatever, but I'm gonna mention it anyway. So a female stranger. Is spotted in a graveyard at St. Paul's Episcopal church. Now this is in Alexandria, Virginia. And so this legend says that she's an ill appearing woman and there's a man with her and she calls him her husband. And this is happening in 1816. So she is like I said, ill appearing. So she's sick. So I'm imagining a doctor is called mm-hmm and they both refuse to give their names to this doctor. She ends up passing away shortly thereafter of nobody recorded what the illness was and legend, of course, and still today, local swear that that was John and Theodosia Austin. So ridiculous.

Yasmine: 18:43

Wow. Yeah. I mean that's a little farfetched. Yeah.

Jen: 18:47

So I had to mention it cause you're gonna see it and it's whatever. But anyway, so moving on from that, that's not my favorite. Now 1869. This is cool. So Dr. William pool and his daughter they make a, he's basically vacationing, summering, whatever on max head. And so he makes a house call to a patient. Obviously this wouldn't be someone like that. He would know. So he's never met her before. He's called to assist the woman named Holly man, who I believes in her seventies. And so she lives in a very modest home, nothing fancy. She is not a wealthy woman by any stretch of the imagination she's widowed. And so as soon as they enter, they are struck by this gorgeous, beautifully framed, and obviously professionally done full portrait of a striking young woman about, I think they say about 25 years. Okay. And so Mrs. Mann says that her late spouse had found it in the cabin of an abandoned vessel that had drifted to shore mm-hmm they're in nags, head at this is plausible at this point. Okay. Okay. Dr. Pool ends up taking it as payment for his services. Also, also also bit saw an alternate version of that, which I feel makes more sense cuz I'm like, that's a douche move right there. Cuz this lady has nothing and she's had this painting for, this is 1869. She's saying she's had it at least 50 years. Yeah. So I saw, but so I did see another one made me feel better and I'm adopting this one. And it basically said that the doctor, this woman had never seen a physician, like she had made it to 70 some years old and had never seen a physician, which you probably know that's possible then the point. and he actually is able to really help her. And she also takes the liking to his daughter who, he's brought with him and as she gets to know him, as he's treating her mm-hmm and she ends up gifting the portrait to the daughter. And

Yasmine: 20:54

I like, oh yeah, I like that. Yeah. I like

Jen: 20:56

it better. I'm going with it. Yeah. So so he said, so he takes this painting and he ends up showing it to members of the Burr family and they couldn't confirm or deny that this was a portrait of Theodosia. So but this is said to be the absolute best evidence of the pirate theory now. Such an awesome, fascinating article as all these historical newspapers are, but not a super sensationalist one that I really liked and I'll have the link to it. And if anybody doesn't know about the chronicling America project through library of Congress where it has all of the newspapers that you can search for totally free and they have great search tool you can really narrow it down. It's amazing. Highly recommend. But anyway, so the, so this is from the 1906 edition of the San Francisco call and, and this story stayed in the news, literally like, like this long, if you go to search anywhere from 18, 13 mm-hmm and I stopped at 1906, but I know there was stuff at least in 1909. I had like 60 pages where her name is mentioned, so wow.

Yasmine: 22:08

They did not give up.

Jen: 22:09

Looking for her. So this is like, this was a big pay deal during, the time. So let's see, I said the name of the paper. Oh. So it reports that this portrait was donated by Dr. Pool's daughter. Who of course I failed to ever write her name down, sorry. And was hung in the all of history of North Carolina.

Yasmine: 22:32

So it still exists this painting.

Jen: 22:35

I'm not sure where, so maybe so maybe. Yes, that's cool. That's cool. And yeah, so anyway so over the years kind of, as I'd mentioned, there had been several pirate death bed confessions about Patriot, and they were reported in, these newspapers, they would do article or interviews with, with these guys. So one of a few of the also just super wild theories said that she was held captive in Bermuda and forced to be like a pirate mistres. And that ultimately she was killed by a member of, oh Lord, I gotta say his name again. Jean LA rewind Jean LA after being captured and refusing a Pirate's advances and upside down again was trying save paper. And it's just funny. Let's see. Oh, more on the portrait. So that article that I mentioned, the San Francisco call and like, so I'll have the link to it. It was commissioned, they do know there was a portrait done of her so that they're, why this gained traction. And it was commissioned in 1802 by her father. The painter was a I don't know if he was an acquaintance, a friend, whatever. And the only name that I saw was Vandel. So this, kind of lens credence to the, the, the ghost ship theory, the pirate, looting it, and then just letting it letting go. And I do know that that Benjamin verdict pirate that I talked about that, had confessed and saw clutching the Bible and it haunted him that pirate. He had mentioned that, I mean, he specifically said that they had, and I don't do boats, so I don't know. I don't remember. But anyway, they had like tacked stuff down and whatever, so to before they left and I don't know if that made it just continue. Do its thing or, or what, but he was that specific about what they, after plundering the ship and killing, the people then they basically did like maintenance stuff on the ship to make it, like they didn't sink it on purpose, I guess. Oh, okay. Like maybe that was what that was doing. Maybe, maybe now that I think about it. Yeah. I don't know both. So I don't know, but you can read the full, very long article that I link to. I'm gonna link a couple of'em actually. And they've got really great graphics too. One is a, a lithograph or whatever of depicting Theodosia walking the plank and drawing of the ship and stuff. Oh, wow. Actually a pretty, pretty well done of what this, this pirate. Retired pirate, excuse me, is describing. So let's see. Oh, so how also they talked about lowering ships to their doom on the rocks and then being able to under, so this is not a hundred percent, so this falls under the, the lore kind of thing. But people believe since he kind of mentions it, that it's very possible. So essentially NAS head inhabitants early, early, inhabitants, they would use the very treacherous briefs and the rocks, all of that to lure ships via flashing Lanard. So what they would do is they would tie a lantern around a horse's neck, and then they would hobble the horse's legs, causing it to limp and reducing its restricting the horse. Right. So now, and outer banks, all of that. You've got the ginormous sand dunes. And I would imagine back in this day they were like really ginormous. Yeah. And so the effect that that would have as the horse tries to navigate in all of these restrictions and whatever the horse would kind of stumble over the sand dunes and it would make it appear like the light, the Lanter would Bob up and down like a ship at sea. And that sneaking on the dark ocean open ocean, they could trick people into still thinking they weren't in anywhere near shore.

Yasmine: 27:00

Oh my goodness. That's sneaky. yeah.

Jen: 27:04

I was just like, what? So, wow.

Yasmine: 27:09

Yeah, that's what I got. Wow. crazy story. I had no idea. That's wow. Fascinating is

Jen: 27:20

I thought that was, that was really neat. Yeah. Wow.

Yasmine: 27:26

Well, good job. That's awesome. Okay. So I was all inspired last week. I think I'm gonna turn my light on really quick. Okay.

Jen: 27:39

My light so weird in here. It's like passing shadows and I'm like, there's my face.

Yasmine: 27:44

So I think I put on backwards. Yep. I sure did. Okay. So I got inspired last week, so I think I mentioned, I put it out there to like my local Facebook group to see if there was any local superstitions. Well, not so much heavy on the superstitions, but really heavy on the ghost stories. yeah. so there's quite a lot of content that I need to go through and I need to kind of suss out a little bit more. Right. But there were. A couple of stories in particular that came up more than once and for like different surrounding areas, which were like ladies and white. Oh. So we have two out here on two stretches of road that are supposedly ladies and white. And then I don't know if you've ever heard of Calco ghost town, Calco mining town. It's a minor historical landmark out here. But I'll go into that a little bit more. So I'm gonna tell a few stories and I'm gonna try my best, not to look at my notes too much cuz I wrote'em out. I know the stories so, okay. Do you have any, are there any ladies and white out where you live any like stories like that?

Jen: 29:09

On. Nothing that I know that we do. Let me just say we have I'm sure. Yeah. Ladies and white and it's either that, or it's ladies and black. Okay. But yeah, I came

Yasmine: 29:20

across a few of those

Jen: 29:21

too. But nothing that super stuck with me that sticks with me, around here. Yeah. I know that we do have some like road related, like yeah. Kind of things, but but yeah,

Yasmine: 29:34

yeah. Not in particular. That's that's okay. So I'm gonna tell my local ones first. But

Jen: 29:39

I don't know. I think I've told people though that like, I repel goes and stuff. So do you so I, cause I think I wanna see one, like actually see it, like, I know my is haunted, but I've not actually like, had something appear. Yeah.

Yasmine: 29:58

I'm like, I'm

Jen: 29:58

good from the same things. I'm like, I'm OK. Just knowing you're here. Yeah,

Yasmine: 30:02

that's fine. It's just, I feel your presence. You're good. We're good. so I'm gonna tell a couple that are local and then a couple of inter not international global. So from other places in the world What I found was generally the ladies, a young woman that dies in an accident or by her own hand because of some kind of grief sometimes involving her children or new fiance or husband, sometimes a white dress is a wedding dress. Other times it's a nightg gown. It just happens to be what she's wearing. And in many instances, her dress is also wet. So I'm just kind of, oh, in like interesting. Many of these legends can be traced to women we can verify lived, which was really cool. Oh, that's

Jen: 30:49

usual. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

Yasmine: 30:50

this is. Other origins are lost with time. Waters also seem to be a common theme. Bodies of water. Almost always seem to inspire our imaginations as beautiful as they can be. They also held the power of life and death within them. So it's very interesting. Okay. So here in the deserts of Southern California, we have a lot of long stretches of road. You see'em in movies and things like that. Death valley, where you can see for miles, and that is not uncommon people drive. Oh yeah, no, no mountains out here. Not until, I mean, you gotta drive a little to get up to the mountains and people drive out here. Like they're the only ones on the road because sometimes most of the time they are. But it's like. So some of these roads are known to be dangerous. Yeah. And I think that's inspired, especially some of the local ghost stories for sure. Okay. All right. So, okay. So the one, actually, I don't wanna triangulate my position too, too much. right. But there is a road not too far away from where I live that it's about a five mile stretch and it actually is within city limits. There's like apartments on this road and a gas station. And, it's well-populated, which was interesting because a lot of people that jumped on the Facebook post had said they had seen it. So that's really interesting. Oh, wow. So she has said to be a young woman in white. Oh. who does not walk, but floats along the side. And then when you kind of make like in passing by you look back, she's gone. So she's along this this road. And she said to be like, she had an, there was an accident, a tragic accident, and ha is how she died in her soul stays there. So there's actually two of these stories, which are very similar. Okay. But just two different roads, which I thought was weird. I don't know. That's kind of random. So I do drive a lot by myself, so I try not to think about them too much. right. Especially at night. So so yeah, and then the other one, I mentioned Calco ghost town and she's rumored to haunt. Calco ghost town is in YMO it's in death valley. It was an old mining town that was bought and restored by have you heard of Knottsberry farm? I have heard of that. So the owner of Knottsberry farm actually put like$700,000 into this little random shacks that was a mining town and made it an attraction. So I thought that was kind of cool is neat.

Jen: 33:29

That's something I would love.

Yasmine: 33:31

Yeah, they've restored it and they have events there now, and it's so crazy. I've lived out here my whole life. My brothers have gone to field trips there. I've never been, so maybe it's something I make a point of going, like, I don't know how that happens, but I've never been so and the woman in white she's been seen. Oh, go. So, okay. She's been seen wandering the perimeter of the town. and the cemetery, the cemetery has about 120 to 200 people that have been buried there. Oh, wow. And she doesn't speak to anyone. She doesn't interact. She just wanders. So, oh, I might have to do a little bit more on Calco later because there's a lot there. So maybe I'll go visit and then, oh, that would be awesome. Do a whole nother. Yes. Yeah, that'd be really cool. Okay. So another legend I grew up hearing was LA yo, so that is Spanish or Spanish for the weeping woman. Okay. In. Okay. And I'm gonna try to put this down because not only did I write, like do my research and everything on it, but I watched the movie that came out in like 2019, I think it was Valona so okay. So in Mexico, there were indigenous people there, the Spanish came over, they colonized and they created towns and but they also, they created the class system that's there. So I think that's what I'm getting at. This woman was like a beautiful Mexican woman, but she was considered low class. So even though she turned the heads of everyone she passed by and she had many suitors and things like that she was still a part of the low class. Okay. I, I'm not sure how, but she caught the eye of a higher class rancher in the area. And he decided he wanted to leave his wealth behind because you could only go up. Oh wait. No, you could only go down. You can go up. Gotcha. So he couldn't bring her up with him. You had to go down to be with her, which stinks. I know. Terrible. Yeah. So sad. So they created a, they, created a humble home for themselves near a river and they had a beautiful life. They loved each other. They had two kids. All was good in the hood. Well, his his family called him back to help them with some business endeavor, something, maybe someone, his family died, something like that. Right. So he was pulled away for a time and it was supposed to be a very short time, but weeks turned into months, turned into years and he was gone. So there's a couple different versions of this story. One involves him just straight up cheating on her. Didn't leave. Didn't go anywhere. Just, she discovered him in the arms of a younger woman. And the other version is that he's called away and she sees him, she's walking to town one day with her kids. She sees him coming down the road. She doesn't know it's him at first, but he's with this new woman. Oh yeah. And he tells her, yeah. So, and she's younger. Of course she always, she has to. Right, right. Yeah. But she's of like the high class or whatever. So he gets his old life back too, the luxury and all that stuff, calls him back. And he tells her, I miss my kids and I'm gonna take them. Oh. So I will give you to tomorrow to say goodbye, and I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna take them. And. He leaves, they leave and she's so distraught. She's so upset. She does the unimaginable. She takes her children down to the river and she drowns them. She's in a fit of rage and grief and despair. Right. They drown, she drowns them when she comes too, when she realizes what she's done, she then drowns herself. There's no other choice, but she drowns herself. Her spirit doesn't make it to the, I don't know really what to heaven to the gates, to the next life because they tell her she has to bring the souls of her children with her. So her spirit is left forever. Wandering, looking for, searching for weeping or looking for the souls of her children. Okay. That's that's the

Jen: 37:58

story I was gonna say, yeah, I have questions. Yeah.

Yasmine: 38:01

Yeah. Lots of questions. Okay. That's the story. Now what we were told as kids okay. Here's the other part of it. We're told this scary story around a, the fire pit or, whatever. And we're told that the weeping woman that LA you have to be inside the house as a kid before dark, because Laona is gonna take your soul. You

Jen: 38:28

kid will do at this point. Woman's tired.

Yasmine: 38:32

She wants, right. She's just gonna take anybody. Because at this point she's been looking so long. She's just gonna take you cuz you've been outside. Now. The other side of it is you have to be good because if you're bad, we'll leave you outside to be taken.

Jen: 38:49

Oh, this is still having like Krampus vibes and all of those one of things,

Yasmine: 38:53

Yeah. Right. Krampus. Yeah. It sounds like that

Jen: 38:58

lo seems to come about for the sole purpose of terrifying

Yasmine: 39:02

children. Yes. Getting your children to behave.

Jen: 39:05

Yeah. Oh my goodness. The Inuit have so many that are revolve around keeping kids safe because obviously they're right there at this horribly ice cold ocean right. And really dangerous, conditions in the Antarctic and all this. So their legends are super scary and revolve a lot around, water yeah. To keep kids. So it's really, it's really cool. Maybe. Yeah.

Yasmine: 39:33

It, well, and it's so crazy too, because kids up until they're like. Well mine up until they were like seven or eight, because we didn't do like swimming lessons or anything like that. Mm-hmm they could not swim. And so they were scared to go into the water by themselves. They're scared to go outside by themselves, things like that. Yeah. So you're playing on that already established fear. I think I was told that by an aunt or something like that. Not necessarily my mom, but yeah, so that's the kind of the story that we grew up with. So scary. I, yeah, and then I watched that movie today and it's like a modern, it's not a modern take. You still have the, the story of Lidon as the same, but now it's modern times and she's coming after children now.

Jen: 40:23

So it it's like a

Yasmine: 40:24

horror movie. It's a horror. It was a horror movie for sure. Oh, it had some, like, a little bit of religious aspects to it, which always creeped me out in horror movies and and even some indigenous influence too. They, burn Sage and use the candles and things like that. So it, it was a good movie. I would I would recommend it if you like scary movies, it was good. Oh,

Jen: 40:46

you dunno yet that I, I only watch movies, horror movies. I do not go past 1975.

Yasmine: 40:54

Oh, like the old slashers and stuff.

Jen: 40:56

Yeah. I only, yeah. I am like such a, like, wha I cannot do. Yeah. Yeah. Once and 75 is pushing it a little bit. Okay. I have to be very careful with yeah. My step movies. Black and black and white. Oh, I can tell you, I can talk. So dorky about all of the like monster movies, the schlock classics, the any, any classic horror movies. Yeah. Like, yeah. Vincent Price. I love the hammer, horror films that kind of thing. So

Yasmine: 41:30

yeah, I'm not as versed in those maybe slightly. Like there's some of the more popular ones that I've seen when I was a teenager, I loved horror movies. That's all we watched, like loved it. It was, they were starting to get like weird and with like the saw movies and stuff like that, like, but then crazy thing after I had my kids, I could not do horror for the longest time. Could not do, like, I would start crying. I would have panic attacks, but my kids wanted to watch them so bad. So slowly we started watching like the ones that, the teenager ones that weren't too bad or whatever. So now I've evolved back to being able to watch LA on the middle of the date, by myself on a night that my husbands not gonna be home in, I messed up. No oh, okay. So I have a couple more from around the world and maybe I'll do I think I wrote down three, so let's see what they're all. Okay. So this one's from Canada. I thought that was Canada or friends in the north. Yeah. There's a legend of a newly married woman who had just finished making or just ordered her wedding dress. So it's brand brand new. Her husband died. There's a year on this one, the British battle of Bridgeport. Maybe I didn't write down the year. Okay. So he, he died in the British battle of Bridgeport. Okay. And rather than live without him, she went to the top of the waterfalls. They used to meet at wearing this brand new wedding dress and jumped into the raging waters of the waterfall. So she didn't have to live without her love. So sad. Oh, sad. And it said her spirit wanders, the surrounding woods, still wearing this beautiful wedding dress. That was. Brand new. They made a point to tell me it was brand new a couple of times. So that's why I keep repeating that.

Jen: 43:37

like, did you, did you forget? Just

Yasmine: 43:39

so it was brand new. That's very, it was a total waste of silk or whatever they used anyway. No, that's terrible. Okay. So now this waterfall, they didn't say the name, but I imagine it has a name and probably has had a name since back then, because a nearby waterfall has been named French shoot the LA name, bla, which is white lady waterfall to honor the legend. So that one's kinda simple. Yeah. Okay.

Jen: 44:16

Raise your hand. Do you think her French was better than mine?

Yasmine: 44:21

and mine I could do Spanish, but French is, and I might accidentally put a Spanish twist on stuff, so anyways. Okay. Chechnya oh, okay. So there's a legend of, okay. May hold her, the white lady in this so I'm not, it's just the legend of the white lady. This one can be confirmed. Oh, okay. Okay. So per Chita of RA Rosen, Burke at Rosenberg castle, she lived from 1429 to 1476. She was the daughter of Olrick of Rosenberg. She was married to Jan of Lich and Stein in 1449. So she was 20. 1429 to 14, 29, 20. Yeah. Okay. Unfortunately, when her father refused to pay her down, it caused the couple to have a very unhappy marriage. The husband treated her very poorly and it doesn't seem like she was super nice to him either. He started, he started it for sure. so on his deathbed, they had this long marriage, right? He was dying of old age, like nothing weird. Y on his deathbed asked for forgiveness of his treatment of per Chito. She refused to forgive him. Oh, she said, Nope, absolutely not. And on his deathbed, he cursed her.

Jen: 46:05

That's fair.

Yasmine: 46:07

Yeah. He cursed her. I'm not admit too far. right. You're like, come on, I'm dying. Forgive me please. But no, she said absolutely not. She knows her worth anyways. so now she haunts his holdings. It is in chess, ski, Cru love castle that she's seen most often her unhappy marriage was chronicled in letters, sent to her fathers and brothers. These highly descriptive colorful letters were passed down to her family and still survived today. You can find them. I did a little searching for them, but I, I didn't really come up with what I wanted. So I might have to look at it a little bit more, but I cannot

Jen: 46:50

believe my gosh. It's so cool, right? Yes.

Yasmine: 46:55

Okay. So this story is very. I know I'm giggling, but that's just the one

Jen: 47:01

well, not remember what legend I wanted to be true of. And then I was like, wait a minute. That's where I don't want her to

Yasmine: 47:08

Yeah, no. So it's so interesting to me that the, basically the proof survives to this day there's other holdings of his that she's been seen at let's try my hand at pronunciation,

Jen: 47:19

like move so many places. Right. That's the

Yasmine: 47:23

part that like, I don't get there's crem, LA ginger do Hardon and tele. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. It she's still tr traveling in her after life. I mean, she was

Jen: 47:42

a strong woman, so yeah. Yeah. I mean, determined

Yasmine: 47:46

a absolutely determined. Yeah. So she's cursed.

Jen: 47:52

So he cursed. So was his curse that she would have to wander

Yasmine: 47:58

possibly that she would have to stay and not go to the afterlife with him, so she's gotta stay, but that's probably what it was. That's that he was like, well, you don't go to heaven, then you stay here or whatever afterlife, Right. Yeah. Interesting. Yes. Yes. Okay. So one, one more. Well, I have two more. We'll see how it goes. Okay. In the Philippines, very similar to the us. I found they have lots of stories of a lady in white. But they have one in particular that is the most popular. The, that she's called the white lady of ballot drive in Quizon city. Legend has it, but it's a longhaired woman in a white dress and she died in a tragic car accident on ballot drive. These stories are told and retold actually by the taxi drivers that work the, the graveyard shift. So one of the more popular stories is that she's walking along and it's a foggy night and she motions down, like, what do you call that? Hailing hails, a taxi. Yes. She hailed the taxi and the taxi driver. That's not a normal place. He would stop to pick up a person. Right. But she was beautiful. She was stunning. And he had, he was compelled to stop. Cool every time. Yeah. this the, what is that? The pretty privilege. pretty. I like that. That's so. She gets in. And when the driver goes to like drive off checks his mirrors, he checks his rear view mirror and her face is bloody and bruised. Whoa. And just like

Jen: 49:50

how she would've looked.

Yasmine: 49:52

And he abandons his taxi runs out of the taxi. And I don't know, after that, but fully support that decision yeah, I think that'd probably be me too, is the only way to it's the only possible outcome outcome situation. Yes. I quit my whole job. That's fine. okay. So there's also stories of solo drivers seeing her in her injured face in their rear view mirror. Well, that was a solo driver, maybe other ones.

Jen: 50:18

You don't have to be a. Maybe you don't have to stop, like you're picking her up kind of thing

Yasmine: 50:23

maybe. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe those guys didn't leave their car and just, I dunno,

Jen: 50:27

I tell you if I, if, oh, if, oh gosh, if that happened to me, I kid you not, I would join her right there and afterlife my, I I've truly feel like I am not allowed to see anything because I feel my heart may just stop. Yes. I'm so like I do that, like, I'm so jumpy that like, when you're out somewhere, like, I don't know you're at target and you have to go to the bathroom and inevitably like somebody, like, you do that whole door thing. Mm-hmm like, we're not expecting it. I will jump, like literally do like some weird like bunny ho thing. Oh no. And it looks like I'm like saluting you. Cause I do this like hand thing, like it's so try to

Yasmine: 51:11

protect yourself.

Jen: 51:15

you ready to fight Jen? Yes, my dad. Oh my cause. Get scared unintentionally all the time I send, if there's something in my hand, it's going flying. Yep. It's a thing.

Yasmine: 51:27

I was

Jen: 51:28

go ahead. No, I was just cause my dad, he would say, cause like I never scream. Like I go silent and I just do like this, like with my hands, like after greeted you and done the bunny hop, like the bizarre, but my dad's like I'm all I can hope for is that they are so stunned by what they have seen. That they will just leave if you're ever like being attack for real. I

Yasmine: 51:52

don't. Yeah. I'm a screamer. I do get scared very easily and I do scream. I don't mean to, and it, every man in my life, from my brothers to my husband, now they just do it on purpose. Oh. And now my son has been on the action.

Jen: 52:14

Oh, they love it. Let's people know that you're like that. Oh, it's

Yasmine: 52:17

on. Oh. And I cannot help it. My husband is a very quiet Walker and he just, he would just come up on me and I scream in the kitchen and he's like, I'm in my own house. Can I not just walk like a person I'm like, please announce yourself something, Russell something. I dunno.

Jen: 52:36

We're gonna make like a cat, like a bell on or something.

Yasmine: 52:39

Yes. Cause he is a real quiet Walker. Oh anyways. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, some accidents along this road are blamed on the lady. Road. So when bad things happen, they say it's her fault. Well, I mean,

Jen: 52:56

like I said, if I look in the rear view mirror, I see her, I, my soul has left my body. We are, I, don't not worried about that car. So wreck.

Yasmine: 53:07

Yeah, for sure.

Jen: 53:11

There's a spider in my car. I feel, same thing would happen. yeah.

Yasmine: 53:15

I heard this statistic and now I can't remember exactly what it was, but there are accidents that happen that they can't explain why, like the person is by themselves in the car and they die. They don't know why. And they're saying. Like a bug or something, or like a bee or a spider in the car. Because obviously like when the car crashes either the bug dies or it leaves or whatever lizard or something. Yeah.

Jen: 53:43

But like when they can't figure out why somebody yeah. Like ran off the side of the road and stuff. Yeah.

Yasmine: 53:49

They look at phone records and stuff like that. It's not the phone. Like,

Jen: 53:54

I, I mean, you get a big enough fighter in my car that surprises me. Yeah. All bets are off. I, I just I don't know. Yeah. I don't, yeah, that just me how I go out. I, I hate them that much snakes are, are right next to that. I'm terrified, but fighters, they win because I'm gonna see them more often. Yeah. That's true. That's true. So, yeah. But Hm. Creepy, right. Oh, speaking of TikTok, we well off mic. We were talking about TikTok. And so thanks today. I was, I saw one and it was this this police officer that was filming, his buddy. Cause he came up and he was stopped like in this center turn lane. It didn't look like it was very busy, but he's like, outside of his car, like, looking and stuff. And so then the other guy's like, what are you doing? Is everything okay? And it's a spider and the other, guy's like making fun of him. And then they find the guy finds the spider and it's like up, it is very like, I mean, you're, that thing that you're, the thing, the visor Uhhuh, it was like up, against that at the top. And so, yeah. And they show it and I mean, it looked decent, it was a good size cell phone. So I'm like, through that guy's cell phone into my cell phone. So I'm like. And I got, yeah, he quit making fun of him then, and

Yasmine: 55:20

I don't know what it is, but some people don't have that like physical reaction to spiders that like that we do. Some people don't

Jen: 55:28

have that granddaddy long legs. Oh yeah, no, no. I can't even handle that. It

Yasmine: 55:34

makes me all clammy and I don't know, I don't want it. I don't get it away from me.

Jen: 55:40

Yeah. So yeah, behind that explanation is the point like I could. Yeah. Honestly,

Yasmine: 55:47

it

Jen: 55:47

makes sense where something like that could absolutely happen. Yeah. All I can hope is that I hit the brake instead of the gas I Don.

Yasmine: 55:57

Yeah. I think on that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna end because I'm gonna do the next discussion. Yeah. All. Did I do the other one? What do you think? I dunno. How are we doing on time? I Don know. I don't either. Okay. Well it's. I think,

Jen: 56:14

should I do it? I think you just do it now. We've talked about it, do it. Yeah.

Yasmine: 56:18

That's true. One more. So this one, right. This one is actually in the United States. Okay. Altoona, Pennsylvania, I don't know if I'm saying that right. If I'm not, I'm so sorry. But it's English, so can't really help too much there anyways. so there's a legend of she's called the white lady of whoopy white lady of Whoopie whoopsy, the go whoopsy. Okay. So she haunts whoop son nook, whoops. Wopsononock Mountain and Buckhorn mountain in the Western part of Altoona. So very specifically, no idea where that is. So the story said that her and her husband were killed in a terrible car accident, more car accidents. So sad. Over the stretch of road called the devil's elbow, they fell down the side of the mountain and passed away. The legend says that she's been seen looking for her husband on foggy nights and even has been picked up as a hitchhiker. Then again, when the driver looks in the rear view mirror, her react, her reflection is not seen and she always disappears around devil's elbow. So I know why, but I picked up this one too. It's got the whole rear view mirror thing happening again, right. Where people actually stop to pick her up and she's gone. She's just not there. So I thought that was interesting. She doesn't, I didn't see anything about her looking scary in the mirror or anything like that, but. She rides back up or down wherever she's coming from to the place where her, the car went off the road.

Jen: 58:07

That is so sad, so sad and I to think, yeah, but that, I like that better. That she just disappears.

Yasmine: 58:17

Yeah. I mean, she's going back. Maybe she looked long enough and heading back. I don't know. Sounds sad, but yeah, so that's oh, that's the white lady, the lady in white. Nice. Yeah.

Jen: 58:30

oh, I wonder, wonder why we all have, probably every country, like, I wonder why that is. Cause there

Yasmine: 58:38

were so many, so many, and then it's interesting to me that not only countries have them, but like regions, like my little town has their own lady and white story. Like yeah. Just, and then they're passed down orally to. Kids as a warning tale or like drivers as a, don't pick a pitch hikers cuz it could be the lady in white right. you're on these long dark stretches of highway. Yeah. Car accidents, car accidents. Yeah. Yeah. So is generally like some kind of tragedy and grief. But violence too. Always sad.

Jen: 59:21

Right. So, oh,

Yasmine: 59:24

oh

Jen: 59:26

too. Totally different stories tonight. Yeah. That was absolutely love. I love all things paranormal. So I definitely wanna hear more about the the mining town.

Yasmine: 59:37

Yeah. I'll have to do an episode on that because it's a really interesting,

Jen: 59:40

okay. I would love that, so. Okay. So thank you everybody. And again, remember if you want to share your own personal story or local. I was trying to say that local legend. I was trying to combine like folk and legend. It didn't work. Do you wanna share that with us and have us tell your story, or if you are thinking you might wanna come on and tell it to the world yourself get in touch mavensofmisdeeds@gmail.com. Everything else we are on Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram. Yep. That's all of them. And generally speaking, it would be all just at mavens of misdeeds. And you will find us easily. I'll also have links in the show description to all the web not the website. Well, we do have a website. I knew I was forgetting something that is simple, that's mavensofmisdeeds.com and I think that's it.

Yasmine: 1:00:37

Yeah, I think

Jen: 1:00:37

so. All that. Okay. Thanks for joining us.